Episode Transcript
Hello Hello everyone. Welcome to the podcast, Spiritual Relationship. My name is Ken Hanuman and this is my wife, Dr. Anne O'Hare. Hi everyone. And the topic today is Independence in Relationship. And when we use the word independence, spiritually it means taking care of yourself and realize that you have the resource and Uh, within that if you develop that and if you pay attention to that, you can grow and you can become strong with that kind of independence and you can bring that independence into the relationship and therefore you can bring value to that relationship. So I will ask Anne how she defined, independence. I think that, We all want to feel independent. Like, nobody wants to feel like they're at the mercy of anybody else. That's for sure. Nobody wants to feel like they're at the mercy of anybody else. But I think what happens is in a relationship, We want to be independent, but then how does that translate into the relationship? Because we have this feeling like, okay, I should be sensitive to the other one. I should be loving. I should be interacting, but then I want to be independent. How does that work? And we were talking about it before. And I think that the spiritual principles of this is the way to go with this. So it's, let's go right for the spiritual principles because when we do those spiritual principles. They show up good in the relationship. Yeah. If you do it right, you do it right. It automatically shows up good in the relationship. So what Ken was saying, when we were preparing for this episode is that he was saying independence means that you put yourself first. So you want to talk a little bit about what that means? What does that mean? Yeah. Because we're not talking about selfishness here. I'm talking about, you have attention, you have a mind, you have an intellect. Why not use it to understand who you are first? Spend some time with yourself. And this is where meditation comes in. But, if you grow, and if you're happy with your progress, and you are actually being able to solve problems, from your own inner, contemplation and understanding. And also even when you make the mistake, you're, you're able to learn from that. And, you know, and, and then you grow. This kind of independence, Really, you're not that dependent on other people for their opinion because people can have good opinions, but also you can have people who might give you a good opinion today or, advice. But then the next day they can say the opposite and it, and once you learn to trust somebody and then they, say something mean or insulting or whatever, it really destroys. It causes some damage within you. So the safest thing is you. These are really subtle matters because I think if you're starting like for somebody who's just starting a spiritual journey or for somebody who's never even thought about these things before, even you may not even know what you think or what you feel or whatever. So it may be, A little bit of a bumpy road at first, because for me, I can share my experience. For me, part of it is being female. I know it is that you're kind of brought up to think that my needs don't matter, that everybody else's needs matter more than me. And I'm supposed to be watching and paying attention to everybody else and adjusting to everybody else. And so independence, actually, you helped me a lot with that because he would never take advantage of that. So, for instance, when we got together and I was, I had these, a friend maybe that was, I spent all this time with and I would talk to her at all hours of the night and day and, people, family members too, family members that I would, like, and he would say, you, you, I mean, he never even said it, I don't think, but just being with you, I realized that, well, wait a minute. When do I take care of myself? Like I never would take care of myself. It would always be whenever anybody needed anything. I'd be like jumping up to take care of it. And so being in the spiritual practice and he was really good. Cause I got to say that, and you said this before being with someone who is independent. Or independent in relation to you, let's say, and more independent is very helpful because you have a model. You have somebody to refer to, because if all I knew was to be that way, which is, that's all I knew, and I think in spirituality, that's kind of the invitation is to go beyond everything that you knew before and in the spiritual relationship. You have a person there also that's there that's saying, look, I'm going to hold this ground that you become independent, that you find a way to take care of yourself, that, I understand where this is coming from. Like we had talks about it. You were like, I understand this is, you did this since day one. So how are you going to get over it right away? But little by little, I started to be able to set boundaries. I started to be able to take care of myself more. And I got to say that now, years later. I mean the relationship is a very powerful support, but it's not because of him that I did it I took the support, but I did it right exactly and that's an important distinction I think so. It's not like okay. Somebody helps me. So now i'm dependent on them Yeah, it's no There's always freedom and I want to add the word freedom in here and independence because there's freedom in the relationship You you help me And I help you but there's no account Right. There's no account exactly and that's a good point. Very good point that It's it's not like I am the one who who knows and the other one doesn't know It's never like that. And if you have that attitude, it's not It's not gonna help Because nobody can live in a in a relationship like that where they're always. Playing the underdog or, or, um, always making the adjustments and the other person always act as if they know, or whatever they say is right. So independence cannot come at the cost. The cost cannot be somebody else having to feel bad about himself or that's an important point there. Let's just underline that because sometimes people think independence means that you pull away or that you don't care. Yeah, and that's not really how it works if i'm taking care of myself I'm, really taking care of myself wouldn't it make sense that I would care about others, too Why would I really take care of myself and then be mean to somebody else that doesn't really make sense, right? You know, I watched the way I grew up and um my My mother died pretty early. I was just about 16. Which means you had to take a pick up responsibilities, at a very early age. You were 16 when she passed. Yeah, and then, my father also passed, years, a few years after that, I think. Um, anyhow, what happened is that I had to, help the rest of the family as much as I can, you know, like, play that role. And I find that you had to be more responsible for the way you behave or what you say, and also how you use resources and so on. Looking back now, I realize that because I always say God's blessing, you got help and things work out and then eventually you look back now and everything looks great. With the siblings. So the thing is that independence doesn't mean that you're selfish. Independence means that you make others great. You make others, okay. Can you say you become capable? Like you become capable and you become like in a position to help even. Right. I mean, even with kids. Right. Look at your son. Yeah. That, um, he, he grows up now. He's doing great. Now we are kind of letting him do. A lot of things on his own making his own decisions and he's doing wonderful. He has a good head on his shoulders there and he knows what he wants, right? And and and that I think is what is independence You can't be independent independent becomes selfishness. Yep, if nobody else benefits I'll say that again because that was really good independence becomes selfishness If nobody benefits, wow, that's really good. So, I'm thinking about us now, just, just to underline this thing about a relationship. I like the word freedom because freedom feels to me like you're still there. Independence kind of feels like I may be there. I may not be there. That's just the way I grew up. But I think freedom and independence. Makes both people or in this case, we mentioned our son. So like our son also feels independent, like I don't need to be all over him. But also one thing I'll share too about, it doesn't mean that you can't share your feelings because you can, it doesn't, cause for instance, sometimes Ken might say something like, I don't know if I should say this, but I feel this way. And I always take that seriously because he's not out to try to disturb me or hurt me or anything, but he's expressing his opinion about the thing. I think that's very important to listen to others when they close others, when they do that, don't ever shoot that down. Take it to heart. These are the closest people in our lives. So we can, because it, because I want to say, when you say things like that, I know you're putting yourself out there. There's there are moments where me too. There are moments when I might say something where Something inside might say don't say that don't say that but then you have to take a chance. So the reason I brought this up was for our son joey that now i'm in the place where I have to decide do I say it do I hold back do I but I think there's room to be authentic Also, and I want to put that word in there You can still be yourself and be independent and be free in relationships. In the morning when, when I'm in meditation and you, you spend your first, let's say 30 minutes about being you seeing yourself in this higher, Like a higher self, being, having virtues and good qualities. But the other part of it is to be able to share with the world. It's to, it's to be able to visualize the world and open your heart to all. So it clearly spiritual values can only grow if we're sharing it, and that is a power of relationship with the human being. We tend to, we're in families and we tend to just I don't know, live life, we just go with the flow. Or take for granted, right? We take for granted. We don't realize it's not just physical. We are responsible for the other person's, growth. I don't want to use the word happiness there. I want to use the word growth. Because we're all coming into this, in this relationship, With strangers, and then we're becoming so close and then eventually become like two peas in a pod, you know, you can really read each other's thoughts. So then why not use it for good. But everybody should feel good about themselves Don't you think everybody should have an opportunity to feel good about themselves? Nobody should feel like they're walking on eggshells Or anything like that. There should be like I really like maybe this is the last thing Maybe we'll wrap this up on this point. I wrote down here good relationships support independence So like I want you to be your best self You want me to be my best self. That doesn't mean we can't relate. As a matter of fact, we relate better because of that benevolent wish that you said, independence, you avoid being selfish when you give. So that's, I think may, might be the balance, right? Another aspect of independence is I would say like emotional maturity comes there because if you look at emotions. We tend to get angry and, all kinds of other emotions. But the thing about, independence, because you have that independence and that inner, you feel good about yourself, your emotions also tend to be more, Under your control, you can use emotions. Emotions shouldn't be using you because what I find in relationship is that when I don't have control of my, my emotion, the emotion can make me say and do things that I would regret later. So that's another value of independence. That's why we need to spend more time alive, with ourself. Add one other thing to that. When you said that, it reminded me of how I used to feel about work, and that if I felt like I wasn't good enough unless I got the job, or unless I was in that position, and I was very sensitive to people who were in those positions, how they felt about me. What that shows I and the reason i'm saying is I can't be the only one that has that. I know you if you're out there listening to this It's not just independence in family or a marriage. It's also independence at work independence at church or at temple independence in your social activities also. And what I find it and if you know me for years, you would know that what i'm about to say is a miracle. That I no longer worry about those things because I have found my own worth, my own purpose, my own ability to share with the world. And I think that's, May be also important to talk about it's not only in the family It's also what you're like you said sharing with the world. Find a way to share who you are with the world And then you won't be dependent. You won't be dependent on a job. You won't be dependent on a person saying you're good or bad You won't be dependent on anything. So you really That thing about being independent finding out who you are taking care of yourself and then being able to share that maybe that's the winning combination. Yeah, and the last point is People tend to think that you can make a difference only by feeding somebody giving them clothes and money and whatever but one important thing I find is that the If you can use your thoughts Towards, it's, and it's a simple practice. It's right within you. It doesn't cost you anything. I mean, we, we waste our time thinking a lot of things that are really not necessary. Or don't write negative. So why not use that, and I find just spending moments of good wishes, good feeling. It builds your independence. It builds your self esteem. It makes, it empowers you. And if you practice it over a while, you begin to really feel it. And, it's an amazing thing. It's a law actually. So, think about it. You're going to hear us talk about similar things in every episode. There are certain themes that are going to keep coming up. And we talked about a couple of spiritual themes here just now about, we've talked about early morning meditation. Ken is now talking about doing service through the mind which means that you have good wishes and pure feelings for others And that helps build up your self esteem and your self respect. These are spiritual principles And you're going to hear us talk about them as well throughout the podcast Okay, so thank you everyone for joining us and we'll see you next time. Okay. Bye. Bye
